....no pun intended.

I agree with Bill on several points.

The idea of committing to a certain distance ahead of time...& completing that distance...constitutes a successful completion of an ultra, IMHO. i.e. I entered the Elk Beaver 100km, ran 50 miles & then dropped. I covered 50 miles, but it doesn't count (even though there is a 50 mile event).

I am not totally convinced that Flash events are "events". I mean...some really fall under the category of long trainng runs. 

Having said that, I would definitely classify some runs (whether they are non-events, Flah, or other) as ultras. There are certain trails that have a special status in the ultrarunning community. In many cases, these are trails that cover the ultradistance, but also fall into an area that would never allow for a legitimate event. They also require a certain degree of committment. Interest in these trails brings a certain competitiveness & lore that elevate them from mere trails, to proving grounds. Often, there is mention of "course records" when an individual covers the terrain.

An incomplete list of trails that I would consider as ultra-events simply by running them:

West Coast Trail

John Muir Trail

Pacific Crest Trail

Appalachian Trail

Stein Valley

The Grand Canyon Rim to Rim to Rim

Mount Rainier circumnavigation (Fantasy, Heavenly,....gawd, I can't recall the real name....)

Badwater (I know it's not a trail, but they do have an "unofficial" record of finishers who complete the distance not during the official race....& hey, it's Badwater!)

So Ean...I would include both of your Stein & Grand Canyon events.

But.....I would have to remove the Western States pacing duties....easy come, easy go. ;-)

Notice of full disclosure: I have participated in the R2R2R, as well as paced at Western States.

 Colin and I get to count #92 as an ultra!

 Bummer for me, since I ran 8 consecutive days of 35 miles or more each day by my self! But I agree - while the "MO-AR TREK" was "organized" in a logistical sense, I'm the only person that ran the entire distance.

I documented the heck out of that thing with GPS, Maps, blog notes, photos, videos, etc. - but I've actually only every run 1 true ultra, which was a 50k last November - an actual race that I ran amongst several folks..

This is a great discussion. I love it!

Hey Gilles,

Somehow I missed your note.  Good question, though.  

In the "rules" that Ryne and I proposed for what counts as an ultra, we attempted to establish international guidelines rather than guidelines for Club Fat Ass.  This so that  those who give a rat's ass about their ultra count will be able to substantiate their claims to their peers. 

For example, Ryne Melcher and I have a beer bet on to see who is first to complete 100 ultras.   He says he beats me and I owe him a cool one.  My natural reaction is to say, "Hooey, prove it!"  So we have to agree on the rules of what counts.  In truth, both Ryne and I are CFA members and we have consumed far more beers together discussing the rules than we have discussing the winner!  Apart from yourself, I don't think anyone else cares.  That said, let's have a beer and discuss the rules one day soon as I think you might just kick my ass and beat me to 100!

I ramble.  To answer your specific question, according to my interpretation of the "rules", if I set out to run 75K as a custom distance in a CFA event and I ran 75K (the distance I set out to run), yes, I would count it as long as I wasn't the only one in the run.  To take that one step further, I'd also say that if you enter a 25K run with a "custom" category and you run 50K, that should count.  Would you agree?

One fine morning at 3:00 am, my buddy Paul Quinn and I ran from my place in Kitsilano to the start of the Vancouver Sun Run (5K.)  We ran the Sun Run (10K) from start to finish, turned around and ran from finish to start (10K).  We repeated that (20K) then ran the actual Sun Run (10K) before running home (5K).  Now there were no GPSs to document our distance, but lets call it 60K.  We were both officially registered in the Sun Run.  We both ran an ultra distance.   Because we were entered in a 10K that didn't offer a "custom" distance, I noted it in my training log, didn't count it.

Anyway, are you proposing a beer bet to beat me to 100 ultras?  Bring it on, dude!   =;-)

Hey Geoff,

I can see you understand what I mean by "what counts as an ultra?" now!  In the end, I figure you count what you you want because it's your log.  It just gets complicated when you're zoning in on a number like 100 because then you have scrutiny from outside.

Some thoughts from my perspective:

1.  Stage races.  I count them as one, because the event you are registering for is one event.  For it to count as an ultra, I'd say you have to run more than 42.2K at a stretch.  In other words, if it is a 200K stage race over 3 days with 100K, 75K and 25K, that would count as 1.  If it was a 100K stage race with ~35K per day, it ain't no ultra!  

2. Measurement.  Good point.  Who can say with absolute certainty that an ultra is truly an ultra?  For my count, I go on what the organizer says it is and trust that (s)he knows.  Since I host the Forbidden Forest and Mountain Highway Madness, I can confirm that I can not state with absolute certainly that the posted distances are exact.  I do try to get a close measurement and always state how I arrived at the distance in the FAQ section.  (e.g. "guesstimated based on trail maps, used a Nike Tailwind pedometer or a Garmin GPS...)

3.  Training Run.  I figure his isn't that tough to test.  If it has a brochure or a website, if it is posted in a race calendar, if the results are posted and distributed then I consider it to be "organized."  If one person shows up, I'd call it a training run, where if 2 or more show up, then it's an event that counts.  I wanted to count our Squmish Scrambler escapade as an ultra for my list, but the organizer told me he figured we didn't cover the distance.  (Let's beat up on Robbins to remeasure that one 'cause I swear that was more than 42K!!)